Tolerance or the Intolerable? What types of behavior will you tolerate? Drawing a Line in the Sand.
80Part Five in the ongoing Politically Correct Ideology Series.
Word of the day: Tolerance
In any dichotomy there are extremes, two polar opposites. The line has to be somewhere in the middle. We have gone way too far to one extreme in some areas. If we have tolerance for everything is anything intolerable?
We all hear we should be tolerant. We should be tolerant of different opinions, different cultures, different religions, different this and different that. Did the term start off as a good thing? To begin, I don’t know. I first started catching wind of this mantra some time back. I can’t tell you the exact number of years for it began so slowly I really didn't bother to mark the file in my head as one to be saved. At that time, it sounded like a good thing.
Lessons learned at home
I am originally from that wonderful, history filled state of Mississippi. Early on in life I learned just what prejudice was. I saw it everyday. Thank God my parents taught me it was wrong. I saw my own blood kin on reservations living in poverty. I saw some of the kindest people I ever knew living in squalor simply because they were dark of skin. I saw kind, moral, good women beaten at regular intervals by the men who swore in a church to cherish them. How could this be right? It couldn’t. It wasn’t. It never will be.
All abord!
Coming from that early mindset, when I first heard the tolerance mantra, I raced for the bandwagon. I thought, finally, something that makes sense. Skin color may vary but we all bleed red. We are all from the same family, the human family. Having believed such a concept would help the world, I quickly went back into the bubble I tend to exist in. It is the vale that keeps me somewhat shielded from reality at times, allows me to continue living without being overwhelmed by the horror that has become part of our daily lives, regardless of how much we tend to allow ourselves to see it or not.
Perhaps it is age, or maybe just wear and tear, but I find my bubble, my beloved vale, is wearing thin. What I used to be able to not see so well now surrounds me. I can’t turn on the TV, surf the Internet, read the news, or go out into the world without seeing it everywhere I go. Is it just me? Do you see it too? My bubble now shows that thin transparent sheen that comes just before bursting.
I have to wonder what happened. We were to be tolerant and that was going to make things better. Well folks, my circular thinking, dyslexic brain has led me to the conclusion that the very same tolerance band wagon I once believed in is actually the vehicle for this ever escalating cycle of downward badness. Driving that self same vehicle in the direction of straight to hell is politically correct ideology, the dark angel that now sits in judgment of us all.
This hub will endeavor to examine the following…
- How the politically correct idea of tolerance has allowed for the ideology that what should never be acceptable be “overlooked” in the name of tolerance.
- How things that should not be allowed are creeping into our nation, our minds, and our laws, hiding under the mask of tolerance.
- How dangerous acts are being excused daily, and thereby behaviorally reinforced in the name of tolerance.
What is tolerance as it is defined today?
Dictionary.com defines tolerance as,
“A fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.”
This definition sounds like a good thing to me.
Were it applied strictly within the context of those perimeters, I would still say it is a good thing. It is my contention that the term has evolved through the use of politically correct ideology to one that leaves out the “objective” part and allows for way to much of the “permissive” specifically in regards to practices, i.e. acts committed.
Let us examine how the term is applied today.
First, we see it applied to all matters of race. Is this a good thing? I think so. Race is defined by nothing more than the color of one’s skin. Skin color is determined merely by the amount of Melanin found within the body. Under the skin, we are all basically the same and everyone bleeds red. That, to me, indicates race is no more of a marker of differences within species than hair or eye color and therefore all races are human and should be treated equally based upon the criteria of race.
The aspect of nationality is the same. I don’t care where one comes from but rather am only concerned with what one does or does not do. To me this is a non- issue based only in ignorance and unfounded fear.
“More and more people care about religious tolerance as fewer and fewer care about religion.”
Alexander Chase
Oh, no. She's going to say it.
The next defining characteristic addressed within the definition, as it is currently used in modern society, is religion. I have already opened a can of worms by discussing politics, so why not go full tilt and bring up the other topic of conversation that is typically considered by most learned people wise to keep out of everyday conversation. Personally, I think anyone is free to decide to practice or believe in any religion they choose. I feel this is a God given right. Our Constitution, thus far, confirms that such is the law of the land. That is not the case world wide in a legal sense. Some religions call for the death of any who do not believe as they do, or the shunning of persons of differing faiths. Some laws in other lands support and mandate the state chosen religion of that nation.
When the good vehicle of tolerance turned into a lemon.
The problem, as I see it, is not so much with the belief in any given religion but with the acts committed in the name of it. Now, this is not to say that all believers of any faith commit acts that are harmful to others be they believers in that religion or not, but to deny that a not insignificant number of them do is to lie to one’s self.
Is it not ironic that Christian principles used in founding a free country, where anyone and everyone could worship as they saw fit, is now being attacked ideologically by those who tolerate no religion but their own? Dictionary.com defines jihad as... "A holy war undertaken as a sacred duty by Muslims." Notice the word "duty". This gives me serious pause. Do I believe all members of this faith want to go to war? No. I have to hope not. The concept of religious deception, utilized by many of said faith, mandates that members lie in the name of furthering said cause making it more than difficult to know who to trust.
Has the Christian faith ever had such acts of brutality committed in it’s name? We all know the answer to that question is yes. We but need to look at history to know that’s true. Examples would included periods of history known as the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials and many, many more. I am talking about, in this hub, what is happening right now, today, in modern times.
Check it for yourself.
- Articles: The Case for Banning Sharia Law in America
The Qu'ran commands Muslims to change secular laws to conform to sharia, eventually establishing Islamic law worldwide. Islamic courts want their fatwas to supersede the civil and criminal laws, untying Muslims from civil secular courts.
You may be thinking this is all irrelevant, Vix.
Such acts are not tolerated on American soil. Well, dear reader, are you aware that Sharia law has raised it’s ugly head in America? Are you aware that some jurisdictions on our soil have tried to pass just such laws? This is a great danger to freedom, to women, to children, to those of opposing faiths, to our entire free existence and to the existence of freedom anywhere on this entire planet.
OK, time to be blunt. Exactly what “acts” are we talking about here.
- Torture.
- Death to non believers.
- Forced marriages of children.
- Terrorism.
- Death and torture to those not conforming, or sometimes just being accused of not conforming, to religious tenants.
- Rape and subsequent torture of the victim for being raped
Check it for yourself
- Shariah in American Courts
Shariah - the Threat to America, The Team B II Report. The study’s findings suggest that Shariah law has entered into state court decisions, in conflict with the Constitution and state public policy.
Does this mean all practitioners of certain religions advocate such acts?
I have to believe the answer is no. I certainly hope not. However, we all know many do. More and more we are seeing tolerance being stretched to the point of covering what should not be tolerated, such as exemptions to current law in it’s name.
Original video by: Specguests
Really, Vix? Like what?
We are now to tolerate a Muslim mosque on ground zero. OK, OK technically speaking it's spitting distance away. We are to do so in the name of tolerance for we should not wish to offend anyone of that faith.
First off, how would not having it located there be offensive? The fact that we wish not to have the self same religion that the murder of over 3000 Americans was done in the name of in our face when we go to pay our respects is somehow offensive? Is it not offensive to the survivors of the Americans who died to have it located upon their dying ground?
- Ground Zero Mosque Park51 A Triumph of Radical Islam - TIME
Both sides in the controversy talk about the mosque's symbolism in the fight against radical Islamism.
“America and Islam are not exclusive and need not be in competition. Instead, they overlap, and share common principles of justice and progress, tolerance and the dignity of all human beings.” Barack Obama
Really? Does America call for the mandatory deaths of all who oppose what we believe in order to gain entrance to Heaven? Are American women forbidden from driving at the risk of a public beating? Are America female minor children as young as nine years of age made to enter into a marriage against their will as a matter of custom? Is arranged marriage the norm in America? Is rape considered dignified now? Is imprisonment for not practicing the religion dictated by the state an American norm now?
The article in Time Magazine
The article in Time Magazine points out that the "community center" was built on private property in Manhattan, near ground zero, but not exactly on it. Don't you love technicalities? It further points out that said center also now houses such wondrous things as a pool, a basket ball court, and other recreational facilities. Do we really care about that? I don't give a rat's rear end if it has a flipping roller coaster and neon live band. It is disrespectful to the dead, to their ancestors, to their survivors, to anyone who sacrificed or lost on that day, and to Americans in general.
Let us think about this for a minute. It is no different than having someone who murdered your family move in next door. How well do you think that's going to go over? Our leaders know this. Allowing this to happen is an insult to us all by the same people we elected to represent us. It makes me wonder who is more dangerous to America, those who would commit acts of brutality in the name of their religion or those who glorify the religion in the name of politically correct tolerance. Hm?
This one act shows the problem with tolerance taken too far by politically correct ideology. The religion belonging to terrorists extremist is to be tolerated and even promoted via government dollars and support through the erection of a national monument when it is disrespectful of those who were hurt, those who died, but criticizing such an act of terrorism or merely implying that such acts are often associated with members of that religion is not to be tolerated. Do you see the glaring contradiction? Not only is tolerance being preached for only certain groups, but further, it is being used as a politically correct weapon to control and condition the thinking of a free people. If it is allowed to continue, a free people will exist no more.
Original video by: 1concernedchristian
The slaughter at Fort Hood
Are you aware that the slaughter at Fort Hood has now been labeled an act of work place violence? Do you think perhaps the politically correct notion of tolerance run amok influenced said decision? How could it not have? This was terrorism, plain and simple. Under the guise of mental incompetence, this guy gets a seriously reduced sentence. The lesson learned? If you are a bad guy, just act like your sick.
A bridge between examples of things being tolerated more and more.
Obviously, what is covered above about terrorist extremist and acts done in the name of religion will outweigh anything I can come up with from here on out. But, let us remember the real purpose here. It is not to slam any one religion or group, but rather to point out how the term tolerance itself has evolved under politically correct ideology to one that includes more and more criminal acts and acts of violence.
I would like to present two more examples. They may pale in comparison but I contend that they are equally as dangerous, perhaps even on a larger scale. The first, short one to be addressed is that of what is now termed as undocumented workers. Does that sound as dangerous as the aforementioned group? Certainly it does not. However, if one considers the growing numbers and the very real possibility they may get the right to vote, that group being tolerated could change our entire political climate and swing the vote while they do not have the same vested interest in it as citizens.
Secondly, I will cover acts of violence in our public school system. Any act that endangers children, to me, is not to be tolerated. What is so frightening about this, over and above the obvious, is that by repeatedly tolerating such under any law or excuse teaches the lesson of a lack of personal accountability to all students not just the ones committing the acts though that was never its intended purpose.
Other intolerable things done in the name of politically correct tolerance.
We are now to tolerate an invasion of people who are not legal citizens of this nation occupying our borders, bankrupting our educational system, medical system, and social safety nets in the name of politically correct tolerance.
At what point are excuses no longer allowed?
- Individuals with Disabilities Education Act | Ask.com Encyclopedia
The law sounds good. Were it implemented, in the area of discipline as written, I would agree. It's not. Fear of lawsuits, crazy legal fees and negative publicity ties school districts hands.
We are now to tolerate truly horrid acts of violence simply because the person committing them is one of special needs. The vast majority of special needs children in schools never commit horrible acts of violence. They are sweet, loving children just trying to grow up like any other child. Sadly, in our society, many are violent and are dangers to themselves and to others, but because they carry a special needs label they do not receive discipline for offenses that are linked to their disability. I have yet to see a truly violent act committed by one that was not linked and I have been in public education for ten years. Prior to that, I worked with developmentally disabled adults for some years. I have seen first hand more than one commit violent acts of rape upon adults and upon children. I have yet to see one criminally held accountable or even go to jail.
At what point are the rights of the non- disabled students taken into account?
I'm all for equal rights for everyone. The current PC trend of tolerance allows for prisoners to have more rights than the guards or the victims. It allows for special needs students rights to take precedence over the rights of their non-disabled peers sometimes resulting in serious injury. Where is the line? Should not it be in the middle? If your child is assaulted and injured, does it make it OK just because the one perpetrating such act has a lower than normal IQ?
Don't think that everyone who has special needs does not know the difference between right and wrong for that is simply not true. Not being able to read with comprehension on higher levels or do Algebra does not mean that said individuals do not know the difference between right and wrong in regards to hurting others.
What is true, and they will tell you this themselves, is that they are special so they can't go to jail. I have heard this from adults and I still hear it from children to this day. If you are perhaps thinking that I am prejudice against this group, think again. I have special needs family members that I love dearly! They, yes more than one family member, have never, ever committed such acts. They can and will tell you it's wrong.
Now, in all honesty, some do go to jail. Many, many more do not. While I am all for giving mentally deficient persons compassion and leeway in most areas, I am not for allowing any and all random acts of violence, especially from those higher functioning people. Granted if an individual can't speak, or dress themselves, or do most of the things required to communicate and/or participate within a community he/she is not competent nor culpable for their own actions. The vast majority of those special needs adults living in the community in group homes or with some form of supported living services do not fall in that category and are of a mental functioning level to be held accountable for violent acts against others.
In conclusion
Guys and gals, people are to be tolerated, not dangerous or criminal behavior. The more we tolerate, the more we will be expected to tolerate to the point of everyday acts of violence becoming the norm, not the exception. Some things should not be tolerated. Some things are wrong. Tolerance was the theme of the day in Rome for a while too, right before it’s downfall. Where is the line? There has to be one. You decide.
Disclaimer: This article is my opinion only.
This is going on in Europe too. Look what it's doing there.
Think it isn't happening today?
Capsule added 2-29-12
The link below was sent to me by a good friend. It clearly depicts Sharia law being brought into consideration and prominence in an American legal proceeding where it further influenced the decision of the judge. Now, in my opinion, all participants exhibited less than good choices, but that's not the point. The point is a criminal act of violence was let slide over this PC BS! It's insane. This can not be allowed to go on in America.
- Penn Judge Tosses Case in Which Muslim Was Accused of Attacking Atheist - Yahoo! News
From Yahoo! News: COMMENTARY | Jonathon Turley, a law professor at George Washington University, wrote on a disturbing case in which a state judge in Pennsylvania threw out an assault case involving a Muslim attacking an atheist for insulting the Pro
You can never know too much.
- History of Israel
James has a style that is easy to read yet rich with facts and plenty of backup. I would not want to debate this man, but I love to read his articles. - Persecution of Christians in Saudi Arabia in the Light of History
Some Arabian tribes had long ago followed Christianity. In the 7th to 10th century, though, most Christians were either expelled or converted, some forcibly, to Islam. Attacks against Christians and human rights abuses, even against Shia Muslims. - Persecution of Christians in Egypt in the light of History
With revolution for a secular government, the lives of Egyptian Christians are harder than before. Here is how what is happening compares to Christian history.
Well worth the read and the time.
- Increase in Honor Killings in Western Nations
There has been a huge increase in the so-called 'honor killings' in Western Nations in the past few years. This is a look at some individual cases, plus an overall view of why they are happening, and what can be done to prevent them. - Barack Hussein Obama is Muslim or at the very least has Muslim Leanings
Brie raises some good questions. If you have not read her, she's one of the best around. This lady knows her stuff and I'm proud to say I hope to be more like her one day. - Muslim Sharia Law Honor Killings in Canada
This hub describes a horrific crime done in the name of religion by a man, his wife and his son upon his own daughters.
You draw the line.
Has tolerance gone to far?
See results without voting
More in the Politically Correct Ideology Series by Vix
- How Is Politically Correct Ideology Destroying Our Nation? Just how the government planned it.
Politically correct - An exploratory series. - Terrorism or Terror tactics? How Politically Correct Ideology Is Destroying What's Left of
Politically Correct - Exploratory series - Part two - terrorism. - Hyphenated America - How Politically Correct Is Destroying Our Nation - Part three - Divisionism
Politically Correct - Exploratory series - Part three - divisionism. - Politically Correct Ideology - The Weapon of Choice - Specific Term of the Day - Affirmative Action.
Politically Correct - Exploratory series - Part Four - Affirmative Action.
Even without the pants, he knows his stuff. Check out The Man With No Pants.
- housefireproject.com - Home
This could work but only if enough of us support it. Read it. Ask questions. Think! What have you got to lose? - ATTACK ON IRAN EMMINENT ..
This hub talks about Leon Panetta's recent announcement that Israel was going to attack Iran sometime this spring. It sums up what participation the United States should have if and when such an attack takes place. It also discusses the implications - Left Ain't Right and Right Ain't Right .. doing a better job in 2012.
This is about the fear mongering by out nation's leaders that divide conservatives and liberals.
Original song by Justin Moore: Good ole American Way
While I am a die hard Metal fan, I like the lyrics and attitude of this. I think it fits and I agree with the spirit of it.
How long will we take whatever they say we will?
Part six soon to be scribed from the poet's quill.
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Poetvix: Wow. I'm tired just from thinking about all the work you put into this Hub!
Over time, ANY term can be overused, subverted, and/or changed completely from its original meaning. Just one example (so I don't accidentally hijack your most excellent Hub):
Back in the 19th century, the term "cowboy" as applied to drovers of cattle was orginally applied as an egregious insult. So that would be bad. But the cowboys themselves decided to revel in the label, with the result that in more modern times, being called a cowboy is a source of pride for most of us who've been so tagged.
Voted Up and a Bunch.
Hi Rhonda, great hub/research! "Tolerance" is just another example of incrementalism at its worse. Yep, it sounded good to start with and didn't we all want to be tolerant? It just sounded so humanitarian - but little did we know what we would be expected to accept in the name of being tolerant.
For instance, at our son's school, we were supposed to be tolerant about him being in a class where they were teaching children to cross-dress. I'm sorry to say that we failed the tolerance test that day as we made it clear we would not tolerate that.
The only part of your hub that I'm "intolerant" of (forgive the pun, please) is this phrase: "Guys and gals, people are to be tolerated, not dangerous or criminal behavior." I respectfully submit that we should not be expected to tolerate those who are acting in an inappropriate, intolerant manner. Individuals urinating and defecating in public at various Occupy sites come to mind as being intolerable. I applaud you for the strength of your convictions and the willingness to put them in print!
LHwritings- Thank you for your comments. It's a shame you see this as an attack as I made it very clear I do not think all members of the aforementioned faith act in extreme ways. In fact, It's said more than once. It's a wonderful thing we live in a free America where we are both, by law, allowed to state our opinions. God bless you.
Ghost32 - Good morning. Thank you so much for your time and kind comment. I was unaware of the evolution of the "cowboy" term. You're right, so many things change over time. I have to hope most are for the best. Have a most blessed and hubtastic day!
Donna ~ And a good morning to you, dear lady. Thank you very much for taking the time to read, with an open mind, and leave such a kind comment.
Cross dressing at school? Oh my! I have to agree with you. I would not want my child around that either. Children are impressionable and such can be very confusing for them. It's one thing when adults do as they will, but a whole other matter to have such controversial things around little ones.
I stand corrected. You are totally right about the horrid behavior mentioned in association with the "Occupy" movement. I could not agree more. Some things are just unacceptable.
God bless you and may all of your hubs be happy.
poetvix - Tolerance for the intolerable is a horse of a different color. I'm not politically correct, nor will I ever endeavor to be. It is what has gotten us into a lot of this mess in the first place.
I'll leave it at that because you covered much more than I can ever say about the subject.
Excellent work.
The Frog
First, to LHwritings, I believe Poetvix is very tolerant, or your comment would never have appeared. I also never reject any comment. Vix, what a hellofva hub you have put out, and please don't ever sell yourself short as a writer, as you are an outstanding writer! At my last place of employment I had several Muslim friends, but looking back I think I was wrong to never ask them "hard" questions.... Excellent hub, Vix!
So very interesting and thanks for sharing.
Take care
Eddy.
You know Poetvix when you write your words fill the room.. we seem to be heading toward the wild wild west again because we tolerate too much.. we've become soft.. and we lose sight of everything pure.. and good.. only my opinion and your hub stirred it out of me so there.. what? you wanna fight about it? LOL Great Hub Poetvix
The Frog Prince - Thank you, sir, for your time and kind comment. I very much appreciate your lack of PC thinking and speaking. Have a great day and God bless. I hope all of your hopping is happy!
SubRon7 - Thank you so much for taking the time to read and for the generous nature of your comment. Thank you too for the one you sent in mail as it is the mark of a true friend to speak the truth. You are right and I think I may know of a way to fix it... maybe. A bridge between the groups is required I think.
I have had a few Muslim students over the years. Each was a joy to teach. I will never forget a young man crying his eyes out in my arms because he had accepted Christ of his own accord and was terrified of what his family would do if they ever found out. I saw him a few years later. He was miserable and in an arranged marriage that had no love. He said his wife was as miserable as he was. He still believes in secret. It breaks my heart. I don't think all members of this religion are bad. I do think the number of extreme members are growing and that gives me pause.
For anyone that doesn't know, SubRon7 just published a new book! I have read excerpts and it is totally riveting. I can't wait to get my copy to read the whole thing and encourage everyone to check out his excerpt hubs.
You are a wonderful man, an honest man, and I thank you for reading and sharing. God bless you!
Eiddwen - Thank you for taking the time to read and comment. I really appreciate it for I know how controversial this is, how not a warm fuzzy. God bless and the happiest of hubbing!
Frank - Thanks bunches for your time and the comment. I do love reading your comments almost as much as your hubs. I wish I could argue about the "wild west" days on the horizon, but I can't. I agree. Want to fight? With you? No way! I have read too many of your poems to think it would be an easy to win fight! God bless you :) and happy hubbing always!
First of all, I want to say thanks for your hub. It was particularly eye opening for me because of the examples you used. I tend to be obsessed with the intolerable excesses of the American corporatocracy or whatever you want to call it and gloss over the excesses of "the other guys." When it comes down to it, though, I've been suckered by the concept of political correctness as much as anybody.
Recently a filthy rich Russian paedophile was pardoned here in Cambodia. That quite rightly raised the ire of the people, who rejoiced a few years ago when enough evidence was produced (caught red-handed) to put him away. My first instinct was a Rambo-like fantasy of hunting him down and shooting him between the eyes, but I suppressed it because it is contrary to my nonviolent belief system. My wife, on the other hand, had no trouble at all with her Ramboesque reaction, which was to cut off his balls and let fate decide whether he bled to death or went through life without the capacity to ruin innocent young lives any more.
Of course, neither of our wishes have come true and apparently the wheels of bureaucracy are turning in attempts to send him back to Russia, where he is wanted for the same crimes. That's better than nothing and hopefully will come to pass.
There's no real point to my comment. I don't have the ultimate answer, either. I just appreciate your bringing the subject up and making me think about it.
Rob - Thank you for your time, the read, and the candid comment. I have to side with your wife on the specific incident you mention save one detail. The castration she spoke of will not stop his horrible crimes. He will just find another weapon with which to perpetrate them. It has been shown that violent sex offenders and child molesters have the highest recidivism rates out there. God save them for man surely can not.
I don't have the answer either. I was recently asked, today in fact, if tolerance isn't the answer what is? I don't know for sure. I have a few ideas, but I know tolerating the violence is not the answer. I guess I'm looking at it like a multiple choice test. Eliminate what you know is wrong and then sort out what remains. I suspect in this case we will have to redefine the choices. I hope and pray if those of us with some common sense can work together we can come up with one. God bless and happy hubbing!
Poetvix -- exceptional and well written hub. As to tolerance "I is and I ain't" -- a friend of mine says to go with the flow and let God sort 'em out! Whatever or however we feel, nothing will change in this world until we get past man's inhumanity to man. This Hub reflects a lot of work -- a piece to definitely be proud of! Best, Sis
Rhonda,
Tolerance/tolerate .. If you get a headache, how much pain should you tolerate before you take an aspirin? Is there a limit to what we are expected to tolerate? If so, is there a standard measurement? Who determines the correct measurement? How close to ground zero should .. Man, this gets difficult. Too much work. Here's how it's going to go down with me. If it pisses me off, I won't tolerate it. If it pisses, YOU off, tell me and I will quit. As it stands right now, this whole tolerance thing is pissing ME off, and I personally won't tolerate it. Now if that pisses anybody else off, it means that they're not being tolerant, and I'm afraid that makes them of victim of the whole tolerance issue. Sucks.
I cannot believe the work you put into these hubs. It's so professional I want to barf when I go back and look at my stuff. Here's an idea .. How's about you writing my hubs for me? Don't worry, I'll think of the subject. All you have to do is write it. Now, where you gonna beat a deal like that? Seriously though, this was good. Very good. Gets the old gray matter stirred up as well as one or two of my pet peeves! Yes, you'll irk a few nerds with this one, but irking nerds is one of my favorite pastimes.
You are quickly becoming my hub hero my friend. Thanks for all the hard work you put into this Rhonda!
jim
Angela - Thank you for taking the time to read something so not funny, fun, or even nice in subject matter. I very much appreciate it. I love your friends saying. It reminds me of something Granny would have said. Yes, ma'am. In the end, only the man upstairs can sort it all out. God bless and have a most hubtastic type of day!
Jim - I'm smiling as I type this. I can't see that screen name and not do so. It's like laughter in a bottle. Seriously, look here, you went and summed up what it took me over 3000 words to say in one sentence..."If it pisses you off, don't tolerate it." (paraphrased but very close.) It's the heart of simplicity and that is much better than verbose! Of course, applying that standard for me would mean adding about 15 or so more examples here. Again, I'm smiling as I type that.
Thank you for your generous comment, time and the read. I know how busy you are. I wish I could write hubs all the time! That would be like Never-land for me. It's not that much work, but I surely appreciate the thought. God bless you on this fine morning and may your day be productive and filled with some fun too. Oh yea, and have some happy hubbing in there too!
Poetvix, First let me start by saying you are a very good writer. You know how to use rhetoric well to garner support for your position - I learned tons of it in law school. But once you fail to research the issue from reputable sources the argument falls apart. Lawyers know this but even we lose some cases. We don't win them all. Because the truth always wins, no matter how long it takes to come out.
You had me hooked until you started, "When the good vehicle of tolerance trned into a lemon." Violent acts by members or sects of the Christian faith continue into the new millenium. The Ku Klux Klan, neo-Nazi's and other white supremacist groups continue to exist. Surely you know it did not end hundreds of years ago with the "Salem Witch Trials." See my Hub on "The Current Status of Black America."
You provide a definition for what "Jihad" is; but you characterize the definition as religious doctrine of Muslims. Muslims follow the tenets of Islam. Now if you found Jihad in the doctrine, your argument would stronger. If you read the Koran and found it in there, that would be even better. To my knowledge, there is no general call for Jihad in Islam.
I have questions for you. What state or federal jurisdictions in America have tried to pass Sharia Law in the U.S. I know of none. Your evidence link is to a similar site to Hub pages where people are free to write whatever they want. Your "proof" is rooted in personal opinion.
There are sects in Islam like there are in many religions, including Christianity. Remember Jim Jones?
The Muslim population in the U.S. began in the 1880s, at least that is when it was first recorded. We cannot forget those who came earlier from Africa in chains who brought their religion with them and practiced it in secret because white supremacist law forbid it and forced them to convert to Christianity. African-American Muslims make up 1/4 of the total Muslim population in the U.S.
Your analogy regarding the Mosque near Ground Zero and that is akin to "having someone who murdered your family moving in next door" is misguided. The people who committed the attacks on 9/11 are dead. The mosque would serve American Muslims and the community. Those who would attend did not participate in the terrorists attacks.
Tolerance has never deteriorated to where it would include the acceptance of any criminal act or acts of violence -- not under any law in this country.
If you spent 10 years in public education, what does that mean? Is it 10 years as a student, teacher, administrator? How old are you? That will make all the differences in understanding your perspective.
Instead of tolerating people, why don't we just accept people for who they are as individuals and live and let live.
There is no line to cross except that created in one's own mind.
To LHwritings, great commenting as usual.
Liza Lugo, J.D.
Yes you've touched on some important problems. Tolerance in questionable areas is good but tolerating evil is no virtue. There can be and is a tyranny of tolerance used to attack certain groups such as christians and those who maintain christian values. Radical feminists use tolerance as a way to silence anyone who would acknowlege obvious differences between the sexes. Gay rights groups attack anyone who dares oppose thier agenda, often threatening them with legal action and humiliation. The list goes on and on. Many of who promote those politically correct agendas are wolves in sheeps clothing.
"It is not to slam any one religion or group, but rather to point out how the term tolerance itself has evolved under politically correct ideology to one that includes more and more criminal acts and acts of violence."(Poetvix). That is RIGHT ON!!!! PC police and equal rights manipulators are quite guilty of this! It is a "catch-22" situation. PC is enemy!! I think the term "tolerance" as a whole is a front operation for self seekers... Always has been and always will be. This is where language is so tricky. Manipulation/Rhetoric is used under the banner of Propaganda. People love slick words and catch phrases. It is all too easy for them to enforce their agenda. Great Hub, very thoughtful and rousing. Sincerely, Matt.
Lawdoctorlee - First, thank you for the most gracious and generous lead in to the body of your comment. I commend you on finishing a degree in law which I know from experience takes years of dedication as my uncle is one. As a teacher, I further commend you. Too few females make it so far in academia.
I take objection to the term “rhetoric” as it seems only to be applied in our politically correct society when one wishes to take the opposing view. Using the term in such a way in and of itself is rhetoric designed to label. Other examples of this in our modern society would include the oh so many people who have criticized our current leader or even questioned him being labeled as racist with no other provocation other than the aforementioned questions or criticism. Often people say old saying are just cliché and therefore have no real relevance. I posit while they may be old and cliché, they hold much truth in them which is why they have stood the test of time.
I really like your point, and it’s a good one, that violent acts committed by those saying they are Christians such as the Clan continue to this day. However, I respectfully point out one major difference between the two comparisons. I don’t hear anyone publicly or otherwise questioning the wrongness of said acts by the clan and I do hear tones of such toward the groups mentioned in this hub. If we are to condemn the obviously wrong actions of one group, should not that standard apply to all? The answer has to be yes or the standard itself becomes nothing more than a tool of deception and mental manipulation of the masses.
The definition for jihad came from dictionary.com. I think you make a point however and will gladly pull one from Islamic sources if you wish. Have you read the “Coran” which is more correctly spelled the “Quran“ depending upon the translation in question? Further, have you read the inserted doctrines done so shortly after the death of Muhammad by three of his chief followers? I believe the name applied to them as a group was Caliphs thought I’m sure I am butchering the spelling there. You have motivated me to look it up in the near future as well as do some other, what you would term more serious research and I thank you for that.
If you check the link above, right by the capsule entitled “Does this mean all practitioners of certain religions practice such acts” which I’m sure was a simple oversight, you will see many specific cases mentioned by the Center for Security which has in it’s makeup your own colleagues, I.e. lawyers. Being a honored member of Hubpages yourself, and a professional, I’m sure you would agree many a hubber is a very good authority one what they write, while I may not fall into that group, in your esteemed opinion, don’t think some of the others mentioned don’t.
The people who committed the horrors of 911 are not all dead as those planning the execution thereof are just as much members of said group. Some are imprisoned, others roam and recruit making them and any they recruit threats still. You state “those who would attend” talking about the “community center” would not commit such acts. How do you know that? How can anyone know the heart and mind of another? Are you saying that no Muslim will ever again do such? You know that’s not true just as saying no member of the Clan saying they are Christian will ever again commit a horrible act of racism.
Ten years in public education means I have been teaching for that long. I have multiple degrees related to serving the population I teach among other various certifications and endorsements by the state as I am sure you do in your field as well. As for my age, well let’s just say I was a student some time before that and dare say I am most likely older than you are. Further, I worked with the population in question for years on a behavior modification level before going into teaching. I will not state my specific age as we southern ladies are known for not doing that. In fact, in many southern circles it is considered rude to ask.
In conclusion you state…”Instead of tolerating people, why don't we just accept people for who they are as individuals and live and let live.
There is no line to cross except that created in one's own mind.” I would be all for that except for the verified and well documented fact that many of the group in question commit acts of violence, honor killings, and don’t allow others to live. The standard for peace must be one that applies to all.
I do truly thank you for your time and comment though I obviously do not agree with many aspects of it.
God bless you and may you have a Hubtastic day. I do look forward to reading your hubs.
wb108 - Thank you so much for taking the time to read something so long and drawn out. I could not agree more with your insightful comment. Those who hide behind politically correct agendas often do so only for what their agenda wants to the detriment of the larger human family. I really like the "wolves in sheep's clothing" line. I wish I had thought of that!
God bless you and thank you again, very, very much for your time and participation in what appears to be the beginnings of a drawn out discussion.
Inkwell780 - Dear Inky, thank you so much for taking your highly valuable time to read this and for leaving such an insightful and well thought out comment in relation to politically correct terminology and how it is a tool in the machine of propaganda.
I can't wait to read your next hub. Please, let me know when your book comes out for I eagerly awaiting the read. You have a unique ability to see into the heart of things. God bless you, bud and may all of your days be happy, your hubs rise to the top, and your quests be fruitful.
Lawdoctorlee,
And Fight those who have not faith in God, nor in the Hereafter, and (who) forbid not what God and His Prophet have forbidden and (who ) are not committed to the religion of truth, of those who have been brought the Book, until they pay tribute by hand, and they are the low.» (9:29)
With all due respect, and I mean that, I'm just not getting a warm fuzzy feeling of tolerance here. I'm certain the the word Jihad is in fact used in the Koran and when I find it, I'll come back.
Any religion is a potentially loaded gun. Depending on how you use it, you can save someone's life or you can take someone's life. If we can be honest with each other, we can see a parallel between the Crusades of long ago, and Jihad in the present-day. I can quote you tons of Scripture from the Koran, and it is ABC. That which is not Muslim, is a threat to Islam and should be removed. I have a degree in Divinity. (not a very big one) . There are things said in the Bible, which are meant figuratively, and there are things said that are spot on. The meaning of Scripture can be perverted for sometimes deadly purposes. The same thing applies to the Koran. Physical Jihad is being preached in mosques in this country. Are they all teaching physical Jihad? Of course not. Were talking about a tiny percentage, but I'm afraid this is a case where one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
Sometimes we find ourselves caught between how we wish things were and how they actually are. You can't use the word tolerance generically. Tolerance is a personal thing. There are times to be tolerant, and there are times to be careful. As far as the mosque and ground zero, it is at worst an insult, and at best in bad taste. The author of this hub is a friend of mine and she's not always right, but she's never wrong if you know what I mean. Such is the case here in my opinion.
You seem very well-educated, and have very good manners. I would enjoy debating you on this sometime. I dropped out of law school, but I did pretty well in marketing and I think I can hang. In any case, I love a challenge just about as much as I do oxygen. lol
jim
TheManWithNoPants - I should have detected a degree in divinity. I so look forward to an ongoing debate on this issue. I could learn much from the two of you. You are indeed a friend and I thank you for your candor and always telling it like you see it regardless of others agreeing, especially when you know it won't be popular. I too will be doing some reading, some updating, some serious studying, which I can do well if I put my mind to it, and really look forward to tossing around some thoughts with you.
God bless you and thank you bunches for dropping by here again. I know how busy you are. It means much. Hub on!
Rhonda,
We can learn a lot from each other. I'm not just stroking you when I say that you have a unique blend of brains and heart. When reading you, one shouldn't react to isolated things that you say. You have to look at the preponderance of the things you say. When you do that, you get an accurate picture, and the objection/rebuttal thing takes on some real meaning. Otherwise it's like buying a big juicy hamburger and eating the wrapper.
the the next few days aren't going to be very busy. Friday and Saturday should be pretty intense, but no biggie.
My youngest daughter just delivered a 9 pound boy by C-section last night, so I'm keeping that pretty close to me. Man, I didn't know .. Those C-sections are freaking brutal!
jim
As promised ..(doing my best Jack Nicholson impersonation) " I'm baaaaaack!
Yes, the word Jihad is used four times in the Koran for what it's worth.
http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/insights/insight20000
jim
TheManWithNoPants - Jim, first, allow me to congratulate you on the new grand baby. May he and his mother be healthy, happy and free to go home soon. Enjoy him while he's a little guy. He won't be for long.
Thanks bunches for the link too. You are always good to your word. God bless you and the entire family!
To anyone that doesn't know Jim, he's a great, stand up kind of guy. Check out his profile, his hubs, and his baby the Housefire project. It's well worth the time!
You are just too damn cool, kiddo.
You say things soooo sweet, please allow me us translate what you just said .. "Too many, Jim is a complete ass hole. He is at best to some of us "an acquired taste." However, he DOES have a pretty cool organization!
Love & peace my friend!
Jim - LMAO, you are too cool! The organization is serious. On a personal note, I like that you keep your feet on the ground and don't get the big head. You make me laugh too!
Many, many blessing to you and much success!
Poetvix, now this is a mighty comprehensive discussion about tolerance and intolerance. You've said it all, and I agree. I believe we should simply not tolerate the ungo(o)dly, such as murder, robbery or anything that is not fair to all involved. Live and LET LIVE, should be the norm. I've voted this up to the peaks :)
The landing gear from one of the planes that hit the WTC landed on the roof of the building that the Muslims bought to build their victory Mosque, so yes, it is being built on Ground Zero, and they gleefully know it!
Martie - Thank you! I really do appreciate your time, kindness and vote. I'm all for tolerance to a point, but it's gone way too far in my opinion. What is wrong just can't be tolerated.
God bless and have an awesome day!
WillStarr - Thank you, sir! This link will be highly useful and I for one really appreciate how you never let politically correct ideology color your opinions. You tell it like it is. I wish everyone did. So many see no problem with the "community center". I am not one of that crowd. I'm all for religious freedom, but not for anything that physically hurts America or Americans. Anyone calling for the destruction of our nation in the name of what the heck ever they want to call it is not to be tolerated in my book. God bless!
Evidently my dear I have been asleep at the wheel...or computer...you have been publishing and I didn't realize it...mea culpa! This is, as usual, brilliant, as well-thought out as all of your others. Now I see I have missed two others...time to catch up on the hubs of my favorite hubber...that would be you!
I'm back after reading this a second time. I'll jump into the conversation but only regarding your passion for issues. In the short time I have been on HubPages I have marvelled at your passion and your committment to stand up for what you think is wrong. Quite frankly I don't care as much about what you believe as I do for the fact that you are willing to stand up and be counted when it would be so easy for you to just go with the flow and keep your mouth shut like so many of our countrymen and women. There will always be those who will try to outshout you; such is the case any old time someone dares to speak out for their beliefs.
I know you as a concerned, educated and passionate American who has every right to say what she feels and the fact that you take so much time and effort to present it logically and intelligently only adds to my admiration of you. Keep it up!
Just a thought: When you KNOW for a fact from observation that something completely intolerable has occurred, then chucking political correctness out and acting is in order. If you've been told that something intolerable has occurred, then it's better to question the source and examine the evidence before acting or supporting action.
I'm refraining from giving specific examples, but my hubs reflect my opinion.
Billybuc - My goodness, this must be my morning. Thank you so much for your time and most generous comments. I know my thoughts on a lot of this are not the norm. That's OK. Your reading and being so kind and supportive means a great deal especially since having read your hubs too I know I lean much more to one side than you do. I value and respect your unbiased opinion greatly. The fact that you can be so supportive in light of our opposite leanings shows what a true gentleman you are. It roughly 5:30 in the morning here and I have to get off to work or I would write more. Please know you have started my morning off in a good mood thinking that perhaps there is hope that Americans can come together regardless of party affiliations, leanings and opposing views. God bless you!
Rob - Thank you for your time and wise commenting. That is good advice, no denying that. The weekend is coming. Thank God! I can't wait to read more of your hubs. God bless you, sir and I hope you have a most wonderful day!
Thank you for this magnificent Hub. I know of no group of Americans who are more intolerant than the "tolerance" crowd.
I read a story a month or so ago that some group placed a nativitiy scene in public showing homosexual behavior in the manger. Someone was offended by it and knocked it down. The act of putting it up, highly offensive to any Christian, was to be "tolerated." The act of knocking it down was called a "hate crime." When I read the story I wondered why putting it up in the first place was not called a "hate crime?"
Do you and I really differ that much in our opinions? See, I hadn't even noticed! Here is my theory on all of this, in case anyone really gives a damn: I like HubPages as a site where we can work on our craft and put our writings out there for other writers to see. If I want to become involved in a political debate then I will jump on one of the forums; if I want to see the works of other writers I will read their hubs. To me the two are separate. I guess that's why I hadn't really paid much attention to whether you and I agree on issues, because I am more impressed with the fact that you simply give a damn and are willing to write intelligent pieces stating your opinion. You do not call others names for disagreeing with you and you are always, and I mean always, supportive of other writers. I wish those who want or need to argue would hop on the forums and yell themselves hoarse because that's what the forums are for. Have a great day and keep up the great work.
By the way, when I commented earlier I meant to thank you for the link above to my "History of Israel" Hub. That is quite an honor! :D
James - Thank you for taking the time to read and comment and boy was it a good one for this hub! You are so right. It's a total double standard. It's like the world has turned upside down. I heard sometime back that some fool author had actually written a "piece" claiming that Christ was gay. There is no end to how far some will go to further their own self serving agenda and with no concept of how they are doing exactly what they are nay saying in others. The hypocrite level has had the bar raised to sky high! Isn't it more than a little ironic how many a public place has been taken to court for Christian symbols at Christmas time under the tolerance umbrella yet any other religion or lack thereof has the right under that same umbrella to put up anything they want to and anyone who questions it is immediately labeled as intolerant? Talk about the pot calling the kettle.
God bless you James and may all of your hubs be happy.
To anyone that has not read James' work, you don't know what you are missing. He takes research to a whole new level and lays it all out in an easy to understand fashion. Top notch is the word!
Billybuc - Thank you for returning! I love an ongoing discussion. I stand corrected for you are right. You have never said flat out one way or the other your leanings but I gathered it was the other way from your piece on when you lost your political fire. God knows I have been wrong before, and in all honesty, I feel as you that it doesn't matter for you are honest and put your heart into your work. It shows and it is felt.
I wish I could say I am always supportive of other writers, and while I am glad you got that impression, I'm also not shameless enough to let you be deceived. I'm not. Now, I won't go after someone or anything rude like that for I feel it's just horribly rude, but I don't follow just anyone. I truly see talent of some kind in that writer or I just don't comment at all. I have read a lot I did not comment on over the last year and a half. One of the things I love about Hubpages is it's loaded with talent of all kinds.
I don't venture into the forums too often. I did recently at the request of another hubber who is a most interesting gentleman from another country. Some of the things posted were just brutal. I get the forums are for that, but it's not really my cup of tea for the most part. I do make exceptions especially when asked by someone I feel others are ganging up on. It doesn't do any good but I tend to root for the under dog.
God bless you! You have a lot to share and I'm really glad you are doing it here so I can partake too. Hubpages is lucky to have you. Your perspective is a unique one in many ways.
James - You are most welcome and I thank you for posting such a good article for me to link to. My comments to lawdoctorlee about hubbers here really knowing their stuff was written with you and that particular link in mind. I saw your comment to her on an affirmative action piece and thought it was outstanding though I did not say so at the time since it was her hub and I did not wish to be rude. You always and without fail do your homework!
Agent007 - Thanks for dropping by and commenting, I think. I can't see your comment. I saw that you had about 15 minutes ago from my home feed. When I hit the page it was not here so I hit your profile page and it says you are banned. I hope it's not because of what you said here. I don't report negative comments ever and now I'm eat up with curiosity! Please, email me your comment be it good or bad. I'm hoping it's good, but it's really cool either way.
God bless and I hope you can come back soon. The juiciest hubbers always seem to get banned! There is no negative implications there for the Hubteam. Lord knows you have helped me out a time or two and I thank you for it.
Very inspiring hub. Good topic selection in raise our tolerance. We can't life alone, we need others. So, we need tolerance to appreciate others and give true meaning for our life. Thank you very much. Rated up!
Love and peace,
I admire the way you can articulate the beliefs, thoughts, fears, concerns, of so many. Keep it up, and keep going!
Prasetio30 - Thank you so much for dropping by. Tolerance is a sticky wicket for sure, a certain degree is essential for a peaceful co-existence, too much brings the opposite of that. I guess it's like making good cookies. You have to get just the right amount of everything or they come out funky. God bless!
Mark - Thank you for the read and oh so kind, generous comment. This has not been the most popular of hubs so it means all the more. God bless and happy hubbing!
Christians and Jews on the right are expected to tolerate open homosexuality, the redefining of marriage, the murder of millions of unborn babies, and the creeping implementation of sharia law in our courts.
Atheists and those on the left tolerate virtually nothing that they do not support, which is why many cities no longer put up Christmas decorations and schools punish students who dare mention God. They also make no sense. How can they support both women's rights, and Islam?
Will - Thank you so much for the time, the read, and the comment. As usual, you make good points. I think you are correct on each one. Tolerance has become a tool of the PC police to further an agenda that discriminates against many groups. I think it's the problem of what sounds good at first glance garnering the support of people with good hearts who initially buy into it while those with not so good hearts use it as a weapon. It's happening more and more. As Americans, we have to wake up our fellow countrymen and women who don't yet see it and refuse to tolerate it!
God bless you, sir!
....well Rhonda sorry that I haven't been around so much but I always appreciate your comments and friendship and I have been busy with life and living and my music/cinema group at FB - but I must say as I close shut my dropped jaw - all of your hubs are like a masterclass on how to write a thesis - and they always entertain and they always enlighten me as a reader and as one of your loyal students - will post this great work by you on my FB homepage to show how proud I am of you - lake erie time 1:55pm
Dearest Epi ~ I am sorry it took me so long to respond to this. I have taken a break from the pages for a bit. Thank you so much for your support, ongoing encouragement and kind words. I have been seeing some of your posts on Facebook. There is some great music! I was going to add a George Clinton video but had a hard time posting to the group. I will have to work on it. Thanks again, dear Epi. God bless you always!
LHwritings Level 5 Commenter 3 months ago
Poetvix, your attack on the NYC Islamic center project is uninformed and cruel.
First, there were several dozen MUSLIM VICTIMS murdered by the 9/11 terrorists in the 2001 attack. I doubt you have researched this, or, from the tone of your diatribe, even care. For anyone who does care, see:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_Muslims_died_in
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-09-03-1Am
There are Muslim families in America (and elsewhere) still grieving over their loss. They would have as much right as anyone else to have a religious institution of their faith near the 9/11 site. They deserve a place of solace as much as anyone else. They don't deserve to have their faith subjected to vituperation. They don't deserve this kind of heartless affront.
This isn't a matter of "political correctness", it's a matter of common decency.
Secondly, you misrepresent the facts with your claim that (1) "We are now to tolerate a Muslim mosque on ground zero" which you then amend to (2) "OK, OK technically speaking it's spitting distance away."
The Islamic Center is at least TWO BLOCKS AWAY from Ground Zero. If you can "spit" that far, you must have a phenomenal pucker.
You seem to play very fast and loose with facts, and with the family grief of others.